Thoughts on fandom social media (about Tumblr, but also not about Tumblr)

[enchantedsleeper]

So, things are looking a bit dire over at Tumblr dot com. (Again). I planned to post something about this during the last Demise of Tumblr episode, back when they announced that Tumblr's dedicated staff was being downsized to a skeleton crew, but I didn't get around to it.

This time, I want to throw some thoughts out there, but I don't want to write a properly fleshed-out essay, so for the details on what sparked this off, check Tumblr itself and look for summaries/round-ups (there are several). From here on in I'll assume you either have context or are content with knowing that "shit's going down" without further detail xD

I started being active on Pillowfort in January (after making an account in November during their funding plea), and I've seen a surge of new users joining as a result of Tumblr's latest BS. This makes part of me a little bit pleased, in the same way that I was a little bit pleased when people started flooding into Mastodon on the back of Twitter's purchase by Musk and subsequent decline, because it's nice to have the activity. At the same time, I mostly hate that it's happening at all, and I don't want Tumblr to die off (just as I didn't want Twitter to die off).

I also think that although Pillowfort and Tumblr have good synergy, as a general rule, most people who join a social media platform only because they're looking for a substitute for another, dying or inhospitable, platform don't tend to feel satisfied. They don't really want the New Place, they want the Old Place but not shitty. A lot of people bounced off Mastodon because it wasn't Twitter. (Or Cohost, or Tumblr, or Bluesky - although Bluesky has the highest success rate of being pseudo-Twitter). Pillowfort has a lot of etiquette and interface differences from Tumblr, even if there are similarities.

So, we'll see if that really sticks.

People other than me have already remarked on this in the past, but with every "fandom migration", fandom gets more diffuse and more disconnected, and the number of platforms it feels like you have to have some interaction with in order to cover all your fandom bases goes up. I was never big into Twitter for fandom, but it was (is) the main place for certain corners of fandom, so you had to either be present there or just resign yourself to not really interacting with activity for that fandom.

And the thing is that I'm pro fannish decentralisation. Bring back individual archives - bring back forums! But this doesn't feel like a positive turn of events, either. Especially because with every platform that becomes the new Hope of Fandom, there's a demise waiting just around the corner. (Dreamwidth, mind you, has stood the test of time, but I think this would be tougher if it were as popular as LJ was at its peak. Pillowfort also, though it has a good ethos and is community-funded, would struggle if it were truly popular, because although this might bring in more donations, the resource-intensiveness would definitely outweigh them).

Apologies for the dose of pessimism, but I'm getting pretty tired of this merry-go-round...

Comments

[vriddy]

Sorry this is so difficult :( You make good points on people forced to migrate never really enjoying where they end up because it's not where they wanted to be in the first place... A few might find they actually like the different style or etiquette and just never had the chance to try it before, but overall if you were fine where you were, being forced to move is never pleasant.

Fandom is sooooo huge nowadays, mainstream in some cases. I can't help but think that some dispersion is nice so people who enjoy different kinds of interactions can find communities with the style they like better (but I'm feeling really burnt by the hostility and dogpiles when I tried to follow my fandom on Twitter) but I take your point that it rarely works out that nicely and most fandoms end up with a core congregating on a single fandom anyway.

Glad you seem to be finding a good space for yourself on Pillowfort, though sorry about the circumstances.

[enchantedsleeper]

Thank you very much <333 Oh yes, I shouldn't discount the people who do find a comfortable home when they move fandom social networks! I know a good number of people who really like Mastodon, for example, after shifting over from Twitter. I've just been aware that often people pin a lot of hopes on the New Platform but ultimately drop off or feel dissatisfied.

But you're right, it's also nice when fandom can create lots of corners that offer different things for different people. I was very happy on forums in the mid 00s, but also dabbled in Yahoo! Groups a tiny bit and posted to some LJ comms. Maybe the problem is that most of what's available at the moment is pretty similar? Or perhaps it's that people get used to having a bigger "crowd" and so it doesn't feel right wherever they don't have that. But the complaint I hear most often is that people want to easily keep in touch with their friends, who haven't all moved to the same place. Or they're looking for a specific fandom that just isn't present on the platform they prefer. That can be tough.

[kitarella_imagines]

I don't know what's going on at Tumblr because I deliberately chose Dreamwidth over Tumblr as more suitable for me, but I can see that Tumblr is or was very popular for fans and sharing fun fandom stuff. It's a shame if it's declining.

I love Mastodon and will not be going back to Twitter, I'm not a bouncer-offer. haha.

I also love forums, I find them much more polite, accessible and of course everyone on the forum knows all about the fandom we love. There is a forum for fans, can't remember what it's called though 😣And it hasn't got many fandoms on there because most people are on social media. It's a pity.

But anyway, after all my ramblings, I hope it all works out for you 🥰

[enchantedsleeper]

Thank you very much 😊 It took me some time to find my footing on Tumblr, because it originally felt like no-one cared if you weren't constantly posting, and not just reblogs but original stuff like fic and gifsets. This may have been complicated by the fact that my main fandom at the time was the MCU, which is huge. It didn't stick for me until The Strange Case of Starship Iris, which is a teeny tiny fandom that mostly congregated on Tumblr, so I was posting fic there first and trading headcanons with people, and it was really rewarding ^^ And it felt like I was able to find a community, or at least talk to people, even when I was in other fandoms for a time.

With DW I haven't yet found any communities specific to fandoms that I'm in, but it's a lovely place to discuss pan-fandom things and also take part in challenges and events!

Oooh, I'll have to have a look out for the fandom forum you mention! I'm willing to be the change I want to see in fandom, i.e. bring my own discussion if there isn't any, and I'm considering creating a community or two on Pillowfort too. At the same time, I feel a bit awkward about putting myself out there in case it doesn't catch on xD But I don't have any qualms about opening up a forum thread ^^

[kitarella_imagines]

I found the forum! As I said, it hasn't got many fandoms on it, but it's here: https://www.fanforum.com/

Yes, it takes time to feel comfortable on a site. I found people were very friendly on Dreamwidth at first, but now they seem to be dropping away/ not posting. I suppose it's because I'm not joining in a challenge but I've got too much else on my plate just now. It would have been better if I'd joined DW when I was writing all those fics in the last 2 years but I'm happy to just trundle along here now.

What's Pillowfort about and what's it like there?

[enchantedsleeper]

Oh, thank you so much! It looks so delightfully old-school :D I'll enjoy having a browse later on!

I totally get what you mean, and it's a bit of a relief to hear someone else express the same thing! Last year I blamed the fact that I didn't keep up blogging regularly after Snowflake for why the activity I'd enjoyed then didn't keep up on my other posts, but now that I've kept up a bit more momentum, I know it's not just that. I don't want to minimise the lovely people like yourself who comment on my posts, though, because I really appreciate it! But it's a bit jarring to go from the constant and reliable activity of the Snowflake Challenge to the comparative quiet afterwards. And while folks have made some suggestions for regular post types that I can make without too much effort (like Weekly Updates, 3 Good Things, etc.) I'm not always convinced that people will be interested enough to read them xD

(I have just started a regular post on Pillowfort called One Old Thing, One New Thing and I may cross-post it to DW too!)

Hmmm, how to best describe Pillowfort... In some ways it's like a smaller Dreamwidth and in some ways it's like a smaller Tumblr. I just saw a post from a long-standing PF user saying that Pillowfort was conceived more along the lines of Dreamwidth/LiveJournal than Tumblr, and yet I also noticed that a lot of people's feeds are pretty image/art-heavy. And I love visual art, but because Pillowfort is mostly too small for specific fandoms to have much activity, I can't follow people just for art from one fandom, and art from fandoms I don't follow is meaningless to me. There's some great original stuff too, though!

One of the biggest similarities to DW is probably the communities - they're a lot like Dreamwidth comms, and you can just Watch (subscribe to) them or you can Join and post. (You can also reblog to them which means that a post from your blog appears on the community but the original is still on your blog, and that's a decent safeguard in case the community disappears. I don't know if that happens much, though). A lot of the communities are sadly inactive, though, and/or have very few members, and that kind of discourages anyone new from joining them.

I've seen people make rec posts for active communities and promote initiatives to post more to communities, so it's nice to see some effort to combat that! It will be interesting to see how the 'Tumblr activity surge' plays out long-term. One last thing about the vibe of Pillowfort is that its long-time users are very passionate about it, so they welcome sincere efforts to be active there with open arms. It takes a bit of time and effort to find good people and communities to follow, but I feel like I'm getting to more of where the "action" is now, and that's nice. Pillowfort is also keen on discussing Pillowfort - and fannish social media in general xD - and having discussions about the State of the Web, all topics I enjoy talking about. So that's fun.

[kitarella_imagines]

Yes, that forum is old school. I used to post on there a long time ago but there are some quite silly rules that put me off e.g. don't comment too many times in a row, which doesn't make sense to me. If I want to reply to different people, it's better to reply in separate comments, not lump them all together.

I think all sites are more active the more we post...but some of us don't have the time or energy to post every day due to real life situations. I like just being around, not constantly posting. I post when I have something to say, not every day.

That's one reason I didn't start an account on Tumblr: I'm not especially interested in artwork or music videos. I like writing, and DW seems more focused on writing. If I was on Tumblr I doubt I'd reblog all the artwork and I'd have a pretty boring account.

I haven't worked out how to join a DW community yet! haha. I'm not the most technical of people.

Pillowfort sounds pleasant though😊

[enchantedsleeper]

I know what you mean - I'm trying to be active on both Pillowfort and Dreamwidth but it's a lot of work! I have tons of ideas for posts but not that much time to make them in 😅 So, usually what happens is that I wind up making something that's more spur-of-the-moment while I'm inspired (like this post), and the other ideas sit neglected in a note on my phone and don't get made xD

I was expecting a more DW-like experience from Pillowfort, and while there is plenty of blogging on there, lots of artists gravitate to the platform because they permit explicit works and that's pretty rare among social media sites nowadays. So, there's also a lot of art about. Art isn't what I'm primarily there for, but there is definitely some gorgeous artwork! I also share photography sometimes.

In case you're interested: at the top of any DW community (middle of the screen) you'll see options to "Join" and "Subscribe". I'll use March Meta Matters as an example since I haven't joined that one yet:



If you select either of these it'll take you to a confirmation page, so it doesn't matter which one you select, really. 'Subscribe' means you get updates from that community on your Reading page but you can't post to it. 'Join' means you can post directly to the community (like you would to your own DW blog). Some communities will let anyone post who hits 'Join' while others require authorisation before you're allowed to post. But you can comment on any community's posts even if you haven't Subscribed/Joined, those are just if you want to track new posts or make new posts yourself. Which isn't always necessary to take part, but for a rec event, for example, you might want to join so that you can post recs.

[kitarella_imagines]

Life is so hectic these days, I think most people are like us and don't have time, or more importantly, energy to post all the time.

It sounds like Pillowfort is kind of a halfway house between Dreamwidth and Tumblr, if I understand properly.

Thanks for your detailed instructions, you are very good at giving clear information 🥰

Is there a master list of communities anywhere that I can look at and choose some? Or do I have to just search them?😊

[enchantedsleeper]

Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been waiting to get back to a desktop computer and it kept not happening 😂🙈 Yeah, I would say that description fits Pillowfort well! Generally speaking, folks who like Dreamwidth and folks who like Tumblr each find something to like about PF (and folks who like both particularly do 🤣) There have unquestionably been elements of culture clash with people trying to use PF in a "Tumblr"-like way or upset about X feature not working in the same way, but if people are earnest about making a home there, it generally smooths out, and sometimes gives birth to some creative innovations.

Like - on Pillowfort, you can't reblog posts with commentary (unless you put it in the tags, which is the same way that Tumblr used to work long ago), but you can comment, and commenting is strongly preferred by the PF community as a way of keeping discussions in one place instead of diffused across twenty different reblogs. However, some people regretted that there wasn't a way to show their followers which discussions they'd been taking part in. And so the "hitching post" was invented - a type of link roundup where you link out to various discussions where you've left comments, which serves as a place for other people to find interesting discussions, too.

A bit of a long-winded answer, but I find it very interesting XD

Oh, thank you - I'm glad you found the instructions helpful <3 It doesn't seem as though there is a master directory of DW communities, unfortunately. One thing you can do to find communities grouped by topic - in the same way that you might want to browse a directory with topic-based subsections - is to go to "Explore" => "Interests" using the dropdown menus at the very top of the page. Once there, you can click "View popular interests" to see a sort of word cloud of interests that a lot of people are into. If you click on one of those words, say "anime", and then select "communities only" to view communities with that interest. Voila - a topic-based list of communities!

One thing is that this method does rely on people adding the relevant interest(s) to their community, and sometimes people are over-generous with the topics they add, but it's a pretty decent method of finding communities. It also orders the list by most recently-updated, with the active ones coming to the top, so you don't have to wade through a list of possibly-dead communities (though of course, the one(s) that look interesting could be less active... ^^; )

I've created some screencaps to give you a visual aid!

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Another useful place to know is the community dw_community_promo , which is a comm for people to promote active communities they'd like more people to know about. A bit of a grab bag of communities, but it could be interesting!

[kitarella_imagines]

Oh don't worry about a late reply, I don't mind at all, anytime 😊

Thanks for your instructions, they are really helpful. I went to check out the communities, I'm sure I'll find a few that I could join.😎

I found that on Mastodon- some people were saying 'but this isn't exactly the same as Twitter!!!!' Well each site will be different, we have to be a bit adaptable don't we 😊

[tinkaton]

At this point I feel like Tumblr has "died" several times already and it's still going "strong," for a certain value of the word strong lmao. I've stuck with it this whole time because it's really the only site that functions in that specific way and I'll probably be there until they just nuke the entire place. I do have a Twitter and Pillowfort, but don't use the former very much (just the occasional art reblog or livetweet) and the latter not at all. But if more people move to Pillowfort maybe I'll start using it again?

If/when Tumblr does eventually die, I'll be sad to see it go because there really isn't anywhere else that well-suited for things like art/gifs. I do hope whatever becomes the next big fandom thing it's more like Tumblr/Pillowfort than Twitter. (To say nothing of Instagram/Tiktok...ugh.) I do wish more people would come to DW for fandom stuff haha but I don't think it'll ever get as big as a real social media site.

[enchantedsleeper]

For sure, I saw a lot of people expressing that sentiment when Tumblr's skeleton crew announcement came out, and I'm not here to sound a death knell for Tumblr or panic or anything, but I think that what's been happening is still crappy and unsettling. For my part, I just started posting again in the fandom where I first found my footing on Tumblr, and I plan to continue doing that! It's very very small so there's not a lot of activity anyway, but the chances of it popping up anywhere else are basically zero xD

Pillowfort seems to be a good place for art and imagery but I do worry how well they would cope with a bigger influx of people. Yeah, ew to Instagram and TikTok xD I would love to see more activity on DW that's specific to various fandoms, as I haven't seen many that I can join in with. Same as with Pillowfort, I'm not sure how they'd handle real scale, but they seem a bit more set up for it. I think the obstacle there is generally familiarity with this type of site, as it's really not the norm any more? But also people want a space that is more art/imagery focused, like you said, and DW makes that difficult.

[tinkaton]

Yeah, it really sucks when an otherwise "good" site has something crappy happen--often because of stupid CEOs lmao--because like, if e.g. Tiktok imploded it wouldn't affect me in the least, but if Tumblr officially died I'd be bummed about it. So I hope Tumblr can keep its act together and that everybody doesn't jump ship for some site I don't want to use jshdfksjf

I'm not sure about Pillowfort being able to handle a big influx of new people, yeah. It definitely seems like the better option for visual art than most other social medias, since it's a lot like Tumblr. I guess it's just a matter of watching and waiting to see where everyone goes, if they do decide to go.

I used to be super active on LJ back in my youth haha I miss that vibe so much. It'd be awesome if DW could be more active like that again, but on the other hand I have a lot less free time these days so I enjoy the more laidback pace now. But I definitely talk to people way more on DW than on Tumblr or Twitter, which is mostly passive for me in terms of fandom.